Interview: Lunch with Bob Russell and Ben Smith of The Brought Low
As I told The Brought Low bassist/backing vocalist Bob Russell while we waited outside guitarist/vocalist Ben Smith‘s work for him to come down with a suggestion as to where to go to lunch and conduct this interview today (March 2, 2010), and as I’ve said on multiple occasions prior, every time I come to Midtown Manhattan, I swear it’s going to be the last time I ever do it. Sure enough, though, there’s always something to bring me back.
This time, it’s The Brought Low‘s Third Record (review here), the band’s first offering in five years since they made their Small Stone Records label debut with Right on Time. An entirely unpretentious and confident collection of songs, it was easily worth the drive into the city to discuss with Smith and Russell the process of making the album with producer Andrew Schneider (Throttlerod, Puny Human, etc.), and as we went to dine at Cafe Edison — located in the hotel on Broadway of the same name — the environment reminded me of something straight out of a New York movie, one of those scenes where intimacy is somehow managed in one of the planet’s most crowded spots. For the record, Smith credits his father with showing him how to navigate Midtown.
Likewise, both Smith and Russell agree that a good portion of Third Record‘s natural, organic sound comes from Schneider‘s work behind the board, but neither discounts their comfort in the trio lineup of the band — rounded out by drummer Nick Heller — as a factor in the positive results. Over our shared meal, there was a lot of joking and a lot of lighthearted sarcasm (one of the charms of The Brought Low has always been their self-deprecating sense of humor), but it’s no question that the band is passionate and serious about what they’re doing and how far they’ve come in their decade of existence.
After the jump, Smith and Russell discuss making Third Record, their plans surrounding South by Southwest in Austin, Texas, and, of course, how every other band is jive and The Brought Low kicks ass. It’s a given. Enjoy the interview.
So… tell me about the record.
Ben Smith: (Laughs)
Bob Russell: (Laughs)
BS: It’s called Third Record. It’s actually our fourth.
BR: That would be funny.
BS: I said this in another interview. The cliché is always to say the new record’s the best record, but it feels like the best record. I think the first one sounded good and had some cool songs, but it was just forming. The second record, great songs and a cool vibe, but the guitars sounded kind of weak. This one sounds amazing, and I think the songs are just – in a weird way, even though we’ve been a band for 10 years, this is the most of a band record. The first one, we were only around for a couple years. Then the second one, a lot of those songs were written even before Kevin and Bob joined. Other songs were just a little patchy.
BR: Obviously, the first record was out when I joined the band and a lot of the songs on the second record were already written. This record, it’s been five years, and I feel it’s more of a band record. We came together as the lineup we are now. It just gelled. Along with the fact that we let Andrew run with the production and didn’t try to manipulate every aspect of the recording, we just let the guy be a producer and do his thing and trust his stuff.
BS: I also think it’s this lineup of The Brought Low, which has been the longest standing lineup. Bob really delivered a lot on this record, whereas, coming into the second record, some of those songs had been written already. This one’s got a lot of Bob’s vocals, he helped write some of the songs, so I just dig it. We’re sort of relaxed into what we’re doing. It’s the most energetic record, but it’s also the most laid back. We recorded in the least amount of time, but we worked hardest on it of any of the records. Also, working with Andrew, we really trusted him that, no matter what, even if we played like turkeys, it was gonna sound fucking killer. We could just relax and worry about playing.
BR: It’s also just being a trio. It’s a little bit easier to get a consensus and a focus. I always liked seeing a trio play, just because of the sound, the live sound. The balance. Being able to get things done.
[Lunch arrives at the table.]
There aren’t as many elements in trying to figure out what you’re gonna do. You want to get to that point of having a focus and agreeing on what you’re doing. It’s that much easier with three people.
I think there’s a certain live dynamic that comes out on this album too. Five years is a long time between records, but you guys really get that sound more on this album than either of the last two.
BS: Part of that’s intentional. After the last record – I love the last record – but even then, that wasn’t what we sounded like live. Live, especially with the two guitars, it was super-loud, aggressive, and then Right on Time was kind of a cool, funky Rolling Stones record. This time, from that moment of the last record, I was like, “Next record, I want to really capture how we are live.” Live, we’re this big, crazy, loud, rocking thing. We made an effort to capture that.
Did you tell Andrew that going into the recording?
BS: Oh yeah.
BR: With Right on Time, we were talking about the whole thing, the Stones going to the south of France and living in this house and making this masterpiece, and that has been done. Certain bands made their best record that way. Not that we did that, but we did spend a lot of time on the record. Maybe we overthought it and got away from that live aspect that people like about us. This time, it was more about trusting the guy behind the board and don’t overcook it.
Did you know Andrew going into this record?
BS: We met Andrew back sometime after the first album. First time we played Boston, when he was still living up there. He was like, “Hey, I’m Andrew.”
BR: Who was he playing with at the time?
BS: I don’t remember, but he was friends with the band Cracktorch, who we were playing with, and he was like, “Hey, I’m Andrew, I’d love to record you sometime.” I was probably like, “Yeah, whatever.” Then he moved to New York and he started playing with our friends in this band called Pigs, which Bob was the original bassist for, at the same time as The Brought Low. It was a side band. Andrew replaced Bob in Pigs, which is with Dave from Unsane and Cooper from Made out of Babies. They would use our practice space, and we got to know them really well socially. We heard the stuff he was recording with Pigs, and I was familiar with his production anyway. I knew he could make a great-sounding, big record. We knew he had the ability, and then we got to know him socially and we got along great with him. He’s like an East Coast, wiseass, ball-busting guy, like us. Self-deprecating sense of humor. He’s got a cool dog. Once it was like, “Let’s make a new record,” the list was Andrew (laughs).
I know some of the songs are older. There’s that YouTube clip of “My Favorite Waste of Time” from 2007.
BS: I’d say a third of the songs are two years old, a third we wrote in the past year, and a third were – going into it we still needed some more material, so we pulled out some things we just had hanging around.
BR: “Slow Your Roll” was from before I was in the band.
BS: Yeah, that’s when Tanner was in the band.
BR: That’s actually the only old one. Everything else is since the last record, I think.
BS: Well, that and the acoustic one. That one was, I had done a demo with Joel Hamilton. We were always like, “Let’s do a project” kind of thing, and I had recorded a demo years ago and it was like, “Let’s throw that on there.” I think because it’s our third record and because we’ve been playing together 10 years, and because we’re journeymen at this point, we’re just relaxed enough to be like, “Egh.” I think the record sounds spontaneous because we were relaxed and free and like, “Yeah, let’s throw that on! Cool.” We didn’t overthink things too much. We didn’t get stressed out.
And that was a concern coming off the last record.
BS: The last record took two years to make. We recorded half of it in 2004, and then sent it out to people and hooked up with Small Stone, and it was like, “Okay, go finish the record,” and it took us a year to get those first four songs. If you listen to the record, you can hear the difference in sound quality between some of the songs. The first four we recorded took us six months to finish between scraping together the money, doing the vocals, this and that. Then when Small Stone gave it the green light, we finished it pretty quick. This one, we went in one weekend, cut all the basic tracks, and then about two days’ worth of guitar overdubs, and about four days to cut all the vocals. Even though we were relaxed, we were definitely a little under the gun on this record too, which gives it a sort of urgency. We were dealing with Andrew, where he’s a friend and he’s a great guy, but he’s running a business, and it’s like, “Okay, we have to get the record done in this amount of time.” Because he’s so booked up. If we didn’t finish it by the first weekend in November, we were gonna have to wait until January to finish the record because he’s so booked up.
BR: Also, we’re all still working our regular jobs. It’s not like we’re getting to the studio at nine in the morning.
BS: Right. I was working a full day and going out there. So even though it was relaxed, it was like, “We gotta get it done or it’s gonna be the best record of 2011” (laughs).
What was it that let you have the relaxed attitude despite those pressures?
BR: It was just the faith in Andrew. It was like, “Alright, we’re giving it to him and he knows what he’s doing.” And maybe being a little worried about it because you don’t know what it’s going to sound like at the end of the day, but also, because I was working my regular job at the time and Ben was working his job too. So it was like, “I’m tired as shit, you take care of it. I’m not coming in tonight.” So he’d go down there, run through it. Makes it quicker.
BS: It’s not very romantic. As an artist, you’re supposed to live and die for your art, but I think another part of it is, in a certain sense, a little bit of not really giving a fuck (laughs). Some of that comes with confidence. Like, whatever, I know this record’s gonna rule because we fucking rule. We’re old guys, but there’s a little bit of…
BR: Some of those old, fucking, gray soul bands and funk bands are like, “Well, we nailed that song in one take.” It happens that way sometimes when people don’t worry about it. You just give it your best roll and that’s good enough and you move on. That attitude helps in getting something done and getting a more live sound out of it and that stuff.
BS: Yeah. Working with Andrew and being experienced. We had a gig on a Saturday and Bob had been away, and he had sent an email that was like, “I get back on Thursday, but I think men of our caliber, we only need that one practice.” Not to say we’re lazy, but that is the benefit of having been doing it for a while and especially this lineup being together.
BR: Obviously that was tongue-in-cheek, but that’s from experience too. We didn’t play in a month, but that’s happened before, and you get together and practice and it’s like, “Well, we did that alright.” And that’s just from practicing a couple times a week, every week, keeping it going. It’s not like we’re lacking in practice. We just keep practice. We can take that gap here and there and it’s not so catastrophic.
BS: Sometimes when you do that and you haven’t practiced and you come back to it, it has a freshness.
You guys are doing a week of touring leading to South by Southwest.
BS: The funny thing about SXSW is everybody down there either looks like they’re either in Skynyrd or The Strokes. If anything, we’re into not wearing bootcut jeans. I’m gonna wear some straight legs. The ‘70s are over, man. It’s the ‘80s now (laughs).
BR: (Laughs)
BS: Our hair’s a little shorter, we’re wearing straight legs, sneakers. You look at Bon Scott from ’78. Sporty rock.
BR: We actually never talk about that stuff. Once in a while before a show, we uncomfortably say, “What’re you wearing?” “I guess a black t-shirt.” We’ll make sure we don’t wear the same t-shirt of a band we like.
BS: That’s more out of necessity because we all have the same gear.
BR: I’ve never owned cool clothing. Always been kind of clueless and try to just stumble through it and play gigs. Hoping people don’t notice my sneakers or something.
BS: All those styles get tired.
That shit’s lame anyway. Who the hell in this scene needs to play dress-up? Why?
BR: One of the reasons you got into it is because the other shit bothers you.
BS: On the last record, we were trying to make it sound like a Rolling Stones or a Faces record from 1972, and my two things talking to Andrew were, “I want it to sound like we sound live, but I also want it to sound like a new, modern record that can compete sonically with everyone else on our label and anything else coming out.” We’re cool, older, humble dudes, but we also all think we’re pretty much the best band on earth, and I want to smoke these other bands, because I think they’re jive and we rule. The last record, I was like, “Yeah, this is great, it sounds like 1972,” then against everyone else’s record, it wasn’t loud enough and the guitar sounded hokey or something. That’s why, this record, I was like, “I just want it to kick ass out the gate.”
BR: Let’s not forget we’re a current band (laughs).
BS: Totally. I want it to be classic, not retro.
It’s a fine line too, and not an easy sound to get.
BR: Retro kind of sucks. Like you’re going for a thing. And we’re not going for a thing.
You guys have so much of that classic rock in your sound anyway that to do it with any kind of retro production might be overdoing it. Though I liked the last record.
BR: So did I. It’s all hindsight. At the time it was like, “This sounds great,” but you think later, “Maybe it’s not the most present-sounding thing, and maybe that’s what we want to go for the next record.” That’s why we went with Andrew and were like, “Let’s sound like a current band that kicks ass.”
BS: It’s also not so much that we don’t like the last record. I never understood people who are like, “If I died and came back tomorrow, I’d do it all the same.” Why would you do that? Why wouldn’t you do everything different? “I’m just gonna eat a burger every day of my life.” No, let’s do this this time and maybe the next record, in three years (laughs), in 2015, we’ll be like, “Oh, that last record stunk, we want to do it all completely recorded in an eco-hut.”
Eco-hut recording is going to be huge.
BR: Andrew Schneider, Eco-hut Records.
BS: (Laughs) Small Stone better watch out. Gonna put him out of business. “Sorry, we can’t do our next record for you. We got our own label. Eco-hut Records.”
What’s the newest material on the album?
BS: Probably “Everybody Loves a Whore,” “Old Century”…
BR: “The Kelly Rose.”
BS: “The Kelly Rose,” probably, is the one we’d only played out once before we recorded it.
Those are right up front. Those are the first three tracks on the album.
BS: Maybe that’s why. Yeah, “My Favorite Waste of Time” and “Matthew’s Grave,” we’ve been playing those for a few years, which is cool because you work out all the kinks, but I think the others are up front just because they were new and we were excited about them. The other thing is, because “Everybody Loves a Whore” is a little atypical of us. It doesn’t sound like Skynyrd, Sabbath, Stones. It’s a little more Black Flag or the Australian punk bands Bob and I like a lot. When you’re doing something different, it’s good to get it out the gate first. Otherwise it would be like, “Oh, here’s the Brought Low songs, then they’re trying some bullshit.”
BR: One of the things the last record was lacking was that bit of aggression. So those are more live songs, good songs right out the gate. Three songs, new material, coming at you really fast. It sets a good tone for the record. Then more mild stuff later, then a couple rockers. I like the pace of the record.
It’s a strong opening. It’s interesting to find out those songs were written concurrently.
BS: Also “Last Man Alive” is pretty recent. Actually, a lot of the songs, now that I think of it. “Blow out Your Candles” was an old –
BR: The riff that’ll never become a song.
BS: Yeah, it was the riff that’ll never become a song. A couple weeks before going into the studio, Andrew came down and it was like, “Well, we’ve got these six songs, then we’ve got the acoustic song, then we’ve got these three kind of fragments we’re gonna finish up in the next week or so, maybe even in the studio.” We played them all for him, “That one I like and it’s the most like a song,” so we were like, “Alright, that’s the one we’ll concentrate on.” That and “Last Man Alive” we never even played out. I think we’d like to start playing “Last Man Alive” live, but it’s kind of hard when you’re doing a half-hour set in a bar to bust out the six-minute ballad (laughs).
BR: Maybe at the record release party we’ll spotlight it. We should give that a live go.
BS: That’s another thing. We all like old school country and alt country stuff.
BR: That’s what Uncle Tupelo did. They’d bust out a ballad and everyone’d be crying, then they’d get back to the rocking.
BS: Uncle Tupelo. They were like alt country band, but they could rock out when they wanted to.
BR: They kind of started that.
BS: A lot of the other alt country bands are just sort of middle of the road.
BR: Some are hokey, some are too this or too that. Uncle Tupelo was one of those bands that was heartfelt. I was always a huge fan of bands like them. That song reminds me of them. It could be lumped in that genre.
BS: It’s a weeper. Every Brought Low record has the weeper. This one has the two more tender songs.
BR: Tender moments.
What are you guys doing after SXSW?
BS: That’s gonna be April.
BR: Immediately after SXSW, we drive our balls off to try and get to Richmond by that Saturday. We have two days, but that’s still a haul.
BS: We’re trying to figure out where to do a record release party sometime in April. The Zen Guerilla guys have a new band coming through in May, so we’re gonna play with them and hang. We’re playing D.C. in May and we’ll try to hook up another show down near that-a-way, and just keep trying to do shows within the East Coast, see what else we can get going on. The door is open. The new record’s out and we want to go out and play. Last year we didn’t play a lot because, in theory, we were writing all this material. Then in the end we didn’t exactly get that double album. Now we’re just really excited to be playing again. We’re doing this tour. We haven’t done anything more than a weekend’s worth of shows in a few years, so we’re pretty psyched about that.
Tags: New York, New York City, Small Stone, The Brought Low
