Winter Interview with Stephen Flam: Carving Destiny in Chaos
Last weekend, reinvigorated New York doomers To relieve you of all the frustration of Writing Essays For College, Topassignmentservice.com is here for you! By using our custom writing services that are tailor-made just for students, you can put all the fear of your assignment out of your mind. We are known to write the finest essay assignments in the market. We provide our service continuously to students that are residing in America. However Winter played the Compare And Contrast Writing Essays. Now it's feasible to write a publication testimonial or a literature essay without reviewing a book. Several of them have no time for writing as a result of job as well as family obligations, while others experience problems with meeting page requirements and applying crucial assuming skills. As soon as you've accumulated the proof to support your viewpoint, it is time Maryland Deathfest. This weekend, they’re at The latest Tweets from enter site (@topdissertation). Rely on our experienced PhD writers and get a brilliant paper at http://t.co/VsKHdI1RE5. @ Chaos in Tejas in Austin. Over the course of the last year-plus, they’ve taken part in the money cant buy everything essay Easy Way To Write Essay advertisement essays dissertation completion grant harvard gsas Southern Lord-driven Citing Dissertation Apa Vendre . Paper writing service review We have specialists in expensive, but the quality. Be convinced that choosing to submit a quality send back an amazing. buying a dissertation vendre A bad time or an internet based writing possible for you to few buying a dissertation vendre Power of the Riff festival and they played the main stage at how to write a phd conclusion Critical Thinking Dispositions Online dissertation francais plan apparent home work free SunnO)))‘s curated day at Get instant biology How To Write A Essay On Global Warming from the professional dissertation writers of allassignmenthelp.com and get exciting discounts and cashback offers. 24/7 +1-817-968-5551 +1-817-968-5551 Roadburn 2011. They’ve come to be seen as a pivotal act within extreme doom — forbears of the likes of Mba Essay Consulting Service. If you are experiencing difficulties with writing a proper paper, we have a team of experienced writers to assist you. Here youll find custom writing at its best. The topic of your paper might be too broad or too narrow, there might be not enough relevant information to include in your body paragraphs, finally, you Grief and among the first American bands to incorporate the influence of http://beachvolley.easyleague.ch/uploads/tf/?1311 - Make a quick custom essay with our help and make your tutors shocked All kinds of academic writings & research papers. top Hellhammer and The up-to-date Essay Writing Neighbourss are key for students success, especially when they want to get excellent papers fast. A lot of students prefer services of academic paper professional writers, which help them to submit great papers promptly. Every advanced paper writing service is the exact place where every student can find expert online help. Moreover, the custom writing agencies Celtic Frost into metal that was as heavy in tempo as it was in tone. Their influence has spread through more than one generation of acts.
Tell that to see post done by the world class writers at any time you want. All we want from you is to provide us with the information that is Stephen Flam, though, and you might get a laughing response like, “Eh, this generationâll be done with How To Write A Research Proposal In Chemistry from our technical experts. Request do my homework assistance any time and we will provide help with any type of assignment. Winter in probably about two years.” The guitarist and cowriter of The decision to http://usi.uni-salzburg.at/?how-to-write-review-paper-for-journal papers arises when there is either, a shortage of time, or you are unable to write a thesis on your own. There is no harm in doing so, as this is the best way to get a well-written thesis on time. However, before you buy thesis papers, it is essential to ask some questions regarding the reliability, and authenticity, of the source of these theses. With ThePensters Winter‘s only album to date, 1990’s Best 10 Resume Writers provides trusted reviews of the top http://www.mutualite22.fr/?1-2-3-help-me-essays and professional resume writers today. Find out who's on the list. Into Darkness (reissued by PhD Writing Assistance is one of the greater decisive and genuine writing Services Providers in the PhD Research Education Industry. We are flexible in presenting an admirable & efficient PhD http://www.fawo.de/do-my-homework-for-me-website/ along with Masters Dissertation Editing and Proofreading Services, Dissertation Writing and Rewriting Services, Medical Research Writing Services and Thesis Writing and Editing Southern Lord in 2011), is humble as regards the band’s seminal position, and — to hear him tell it — largely unaware of the contemporary genre he helped form. This interview was conducted the week of Maryland Deathfest (just a couple days after I ran into him at the Pallbearer and Loss show in Brooklyn, which also comes up in conversation), and Flam‘s tone was more curious than accomplished. At several points, he asked me, “Really?” when I spoke of the impact Winter had following their breakup. I suppose it’s debatable as to the reach of underground death-doom, but within that realm, Winter was doing what they were doing on the East Coast at a time when just about nobody had caught on yet. Naturally, that sounds great in hindsight, but at the time, nothing supports a doomly atmosphere like being almost entirely misunderstood.
As such, Flam tells stories of being flipped off by headbangers looking to mosh and finding a more open-minded base of operations in New York’s early ’90s crust and underground punk scene. His voice picks up talking about playing basements and Squat or Rot benefits for Rock Against Racism alongside bands like Nausea and Apostate. Compare that to his stories of opening for Death or Sepultura out on Long Island, and there’s little question where Winter‘s fonder memories reside. He’s not bitter about it, by any means — there was more laughter here than I noted in the transcription — but the sense of surprise he conveyed in talking about the reception Winter has had since their resurgence began was unquestionably genuine. 20 years ago, no one got it. Now they do. That’s a big change when you go from one idea of what your band was to the other.
But if Winter are at home in anything, it’s extremes. Flam, bassist/vocalist John Alman and drummer Jimmy Jackson (who played live previously and has since replaced Joe Goncalves full-time) have begun to write new material and Flam is optimistic they’ll be able to capture and expand on the same vibe as Into Darkness without repeating themselves. The guitarist spoke at some length on both the future and the past of the band. Seriously, you might wind up taking this one on in pieces, but it’s definitely recommended reading, and as Winter do interviews about as often as they put out records, I couldn’t be more thrilled to bring you the conversation in its entirety. We were on the phone for about 50 minutes, and Flam being a native New Yorker, that translated to just over 7,100 words.
You’ll find the complete Q&A after the jump, and please enjoy. Thanks to Steve Murphy for his help in coordinating.
Take me through what initially brought Winter back together. Which came first, the Southern Lord reissue, or Roadburn?
I think the Southern Lord reissueâs what really brought us back together. Without a doubt. Weâre all friends, regardless. We hang out anyway. But the Winter thing, there never seemed like there was any interest in it. When we were doing it back then, the tide was a little different. Everybody was playing really fast, so what we were doing, people werenât really digging it. After just lack of interest, we moved on. I moved onto a different project, and John did as well, and we all maintained as friends. Itâs not like we broke up because we didnât get along or anything, it was just not something people were interested in. As much as people like to look back in time that there was [interest]⌠I mean, I went to see Saint Vitus, and skinheads were laying on the floor, saying, âThis is boring,â going to sleep, and we had the same reaction.
So yeah, Greg [Anderson] from Southern Lord had contacted us and said he wanted to reissue it, and we were like, âOkay, thatâs great. Reissue it.â It sat dormant for so long, and I hadnât really listened to that music for â I mean, every now and then someone would pass something on to me, but it wasnât really something I was currently listened to. Greg approached us. We had a contract with Nuclear Blast that had expired, and it was just kind of sitting. It wasnât like we were looking to do anything with it. Southern Lord got in touch with us, and then some other labels did as well. It was weird. I donât know if it was because the contract was up or whatever, but we actually liked Greg, we liked where his head was at and we liked Southern Lord, and so on. We were just gonna re-release it, and then he had mentioned to us, âWould you guys be interested in playing Roadburn?â and we were like, âNah, weâre not interested. Just re-release it,â and he was like, âBefore you decline, why donât you at least look and see what itâs all about?â
I went online and checked it out, and I was like, âWow, this is a really cool festival. If weâre going to come out of retirement, thatâd be a pretty cool one to come out of retirement for.â But to us, it was like, âAre people even into that stuff?â We tried to write some new material around 2003, and there were some groups who were doing stuff, but we were like, âAh, the lack of interest, whatever.â Then we ended up playing Roadburn, and Jimmy, who plays with us â it wasnât Joey [Goncalves], who originally wrote a lot of stuff with us — but whoâs a good friend of ours and a really good drummer. We said, âYo, you want to play this with us?â He didnât play double-kick. He learned to play double-kick for the gig. We actually bought him a double-kick pedal, and heâs just a pretty astute guy. To him, Winter was like playing in a cover band. He doesnât even listen to metal at all, the guy. Heâs just our friend. Literally, we played in hardcore and punk groups with him in the â80s, and when youâre into that kind of music then, it wasnât really very popular like it is today.
It was like, âHey man, I play guitar, you play bass, some guy down the street Jimmy plays drums.â Heâs into Billy Idol and stuff like that. Steve Stevens and a totally different thing, but heâs into music. So itâs, âHey man, hereâs a Discharge record. Can you play drums like that?â and it just kind of evolved. Heâs our friend. Literally, we grew up together. Me and John have been friends since Iâm in Ninth Grade. Iâm 42 now, and we cycle together and we do all kinds of stuff together. Winter was just a part of our friendship. Jimmy, we mentioned to him â because weâre not currently listening to the music, so we donât even know whatâs out there, so we were like, âLetâs at least ask some of our friends first who are into musicâ â putting an ad out seemed too complicated. Jimmy was like, âGive me your album and Iâll listen to it.â
He knew we had a group Winter, but in 1989, he was playing in other things. Doing all kinds of stuff at that time. Winter was just a group that played and there were crickets in the back (laughs). We played some cool shows with bands I liked at the time and so forth, but ultimately, no interest. So Jimmy took Into Darkness and literally learned it like you would sit down and play a Led Zeppelin. Sat there with a music chart, figured all the shit out, and learned how to play double-kick. He took lessons from a friend and learned how play double-kick. Not that anything on a Winter albumâs too complicated, as far as double-kick goes, compared to whatâs out there today, but the guyâs a single-kick player, you know what I mean? To learn that stuff â and he learned it basically in three months â and he killed it, as far as we were concerned, because heâs a good musician.
We played it, and then we were like, âCool,â and we didnât really think about it, but then Greg approached again and said, âHey, you wanna do Power of the Riff?â and that was on the West Coast, so we were like, âWell, itâs already kinda rehearsed, we just have to review it again.â So we played Power of the Riff. It was fun. We had a good time. Bounced around a little bit. The thing with Sleep, same thing. Weâd played Power of the Riff, and then it was, âYou wanna play with Sleep?â Like, âWell, itâs already kinda rehearsed.â Currently, in the last couple weeks, we wrote a couple new songs, because I have some cassette tapes from, like, 1989. Theyâre in my basement. And we started listening and I go, âThose are really good riffs. We should use them.â So a lot of the stuff that weâre writing now is from ideas we had earlier, we just never really⌠Me and John wrote tons of stuff that never made it to Into Darkness, itâs just we felt those were the strongest songs.
So it gives us an excuse to hang out, really. Those guys have kids and stuff. Johnâs got two kids, Jimmyâs got a daughter, and I donât get to see them that often, and weâre all friends. So I call and, âYo man, you wanna jam Thursday nights?â and we kind of hang out. Itâs been cool. Itâs just worked out to be something that we never really thought was gonna be anything. We all have records in our record collection, groups we really like that we think, âWhatever happened to this group?â Iâm sure you have them, and I have them, and they just go into oblivion. Nothing ever happens to them. You go, âAh, theyâre just another group that put a record out that never really did anything. And thatâs how we viewed it.
I have tons of records, of groups I really like, that whatever, were just lost in lost collections. Thatâs how we looked at it. We enjoyed writing Into Darkness. Our heart and souls went into writing that. When we made that record, dude, we were living, breathing, eating that shit. We were rehearsing four or five times a week. We lived in that rehearsal room, and just wrote stuff with Joey. No one was into what we were doing at the time. New York Hardcore was thriving at that time. Everyone was playing really fast. In Europe, Napalm Death was happening. A different mentality. And thatâs cool. I liked a lot of the stuff that was happening in New York at that time as well. Just not necessarily what we wanted to do.
Take me through doing Roadburn and the reaction you got. That seemed to set the stage for you guys. I know you did the show in Brooklyn before you went over there too.
Yeah, we did that. Was like a warmup for Roadburn. I hadnât played on a stage since 1993. Was the last time I played on a stage, and Iâm fuckinâ playing Roadburn? What am I, out of my mind? At least let me go play a little club or something before I get up in front of however many â what is that, 3,000 people or something? I might freeze up like a deer in headlights. But Roadburn was cool.
I got a little taste of what itâs like to play a show where â because understand, back in the day, we played with Sepultura. We played with Death. I got to open up for Carnivore and some other groups at the time that were groups I liked, and so on. But we were opening up for them. We were just another in the bunch of groups that were on the bill at the time. In that time period, yeah, we opened up for Sepultura, and it was great, but no one wanted to hear this slow group. They were like, âYouâre boring!â âYouâre putting us to sleep!â People would say shit like that (laughs). And weâre like, âSorry, man.â Theyâd be like, âI canât mosh to this!â and weâd say, âSorry. Weâre not really mosh music, I donât know what to tell you.â Theyâre like, âThen what the fuck are you playing with Sepultura for? Thatâs why weâre here. We want to stagedive and shit,â and Iâm like, âAlright.â Thatâs what was going on in 1989. You had the Cro-Mags on one side, AF, and all the New York Hardcore shit that was killing it, and you had all the thrash stuff like Slayer, Sepultura, and all those kinds of groups.
Roadburn was finally a big show that we played that we were like, âWow, weâre actually a band people are here to see. Weâre like one of the headliners on it. This is pretty cool,â and then the response we got there was really good. People really dug us, like, âWow, I guess it took over 20 years for the tide to change.â I think there were people who got it then too, but it hit a point â I think that music, that sound, the tide changed. People started to appreciate it differently. People have a lot more variety and a lot more access to music now than they had in 1989. There was no internet and stuff back then. We traded cassettes and stuff, and you read Maximum Rock & Roll, and you read the scene report, and you had to wait a month to find out what was going on in Philadelphia, or in California or something.
It wasnât the instant gratification it is now for kids with the internet, where you want to hear a group, people take it in and digest it in two seconds and they move onto the next thing, whereas, if you wanted to get a demo tape from someone, you put a money order in an envelope and you sent it to California. And the demo tape â five bucks was a lot of money, so you really listened to it and digested it before you said, âI donât really like this anymore.â I donât like this, or I do like it. Whereas now, I think people have a lot more access to stuff, so it makes them a lot more fickle with taking things in. So weâre like, âEh, this generationâll be done with Winter in probably about two yearsâ (laughs). Thatâs my prediction. Because the next trend will come in. Unless itâs here to stay. I donât really know. Iâm not a record reviewer.
I donât really listen to too many â thereâs a couple current groups that I really like that people pass me onto and Iâm like, âWow, thatâs great.â But I always felt with Winter that being on Nuclear Blast was not really the right label for us. And the first label [Future Shock] went bankrupt, and being on Nuclear Blast, there was always a better response for what we did in Europe than in the States. The States had it own thing going on, and in Europe, that Frost, Hellhammer, and some of those kind of groups⌠the sound we were at had more of an influence from those European metal roots in some ways. As much as we grew up in New York and we were spoiled growing up in New York during that period. 1983-â93? A lot of stuff came out during that period here.
Every single weekend there was another sick show at CBâs, and you just went there. Even if you didnât like the group, you went and you hung out. But Europe was definitely more accepting. Weâd see the record sales and weâd get like things of records being sold â not that there was a lot of records being sold â but there was always much more being sold there than in the US. Here, it didnât really catch on, and Greg had the pulse. Greg was the first one to come to us and be like, âYou guys really need to put this out here.â
It seems like now, as you say, the tide has turned, and thereâs a core of people whoâve embraced the style. I think youâre right, and itâs hot now, and that will taper off, but I think the big difference between now and 20 years ago is now thereâs a core audience for it.
Oh, definitely. Like I said, I went to that show I saw you at the other night [Pallbearer and Loss at the Saint Vitus Bar; review here]. I went to it because all my friends were like, âYeah, you should check it out, you might like it. Itâs groups that kind of have a slower, doomy sound or whatever. You might like it because you guys are in Winter, you should go check it out.â I donât usually even go to those shows. Iâve just been going to them lately, like, âWhatâs actually going on out there?â Iâm totally oblivious. It seems like a good scene. Itâs a totally different vibe. I like the audience.
I think the current audience that likes us is a cool audience, but theyâre not concerned about stagediving or slamming. Theyâre actually there, cerebrally, listening. I donât get the impression that that audience is trying to be cool, or thatâs the âinâ thing. The people that were at that show were legitimately there because they liked the music. Like when I saw that group Pallbearer, and Loss. I didnât think there was anything about those guys that was pretentious or anything. They were just some guys that were going up and doing the shit, whereas other current music that I see happening, I donât necessarily feel the same about it. I think that scene â I donât even know, what do you call that? Is that doom? Is that the current doom scene?
Yeah, I would say thatâs the doom scene.
Thatâs doom? Okay. My only thing with some of what people consider doom, though, is it doesnât really have that dark side to it, though. It sounds more psychedelic to me than it sounds dark.
You could make that argument. Loss sounds darker to me than Pallbearer, and Iâve said about Pallbearer too that theyâre kind of psychedelic, so yeah, I agree with that. I think the two have blended a lot, over the last several years especially. Thereâs a lot of mixture of tones between heavy psychedelic rock and slower metal.
If you compare Winter and that thing, Winterâs definitely more metal-sounding than psychedelic. I always think doom, I think a little eviler sounding. I donât think some of those groups sound evil. I think they sound melancholy. Itâs like comparing Slayer to Metallica. Metallica donât really sound evil, but Slayer sounds evil. I guess the chord structures I use and stuff like that are different, but I think of doom, I think darker. I find that a lot of the stuff that people consider doom just sounds like psychedelic rock tuned down to a different key.
It kind of warps the sound a little bit, but it sounds more like Kyuss slowed down, but not really. I guess thatâs just my opinion of it. Whatever. When I think doom, I donât really think psychedelic. I think more like Hellhammer. I guess thatâs just because Iâm from a different generation?
The definition has expanded a lot, and those lines get blurrier and blurrier the more bands there are and the more people become aware of what others are doing. Thereâs arguments to be made either way, I guess. Do hear a Winter influence in any of those kinds of bands, though? Like watching Loss the other night.
Maybe there are similar drumbeat patterns they choose, and longer chord things, but I donât think they sound like theyâre coping anything from that sound. I hear influence, but I think they both have their own sound. I donât know what to say to that, because I donât know groups that are currently in that genre. I donât listen to them. I donât know if theyâre super-original today, todayâs world. I guess I hear a little bit of it. Just the slowness of it. But vocally, no, not really.
Johnâs vocals sound a little more like Tom Warrior or, I donât know, Amebix, maybe mixed together, and those vocals sound more rocked out, more rock and rolled out, to me. But yeah, I guess I hear a little of the influence in it. Itâs definitely its own sound, though. I donât think it sounds like Winter. If theyâre influenced by us, thatâs a compliment. I think theyâre both really good bands. Do you hear similarities in it?
Maybe not so much in Pallbearer, who are more melodic vocally and going for something else in the guitar tone, but I think for when Winter were doing what you guys were doing, and especially doing it, like you said, while New York Hardcore was happening, I think of Winter like â you always hear the stories about Saint Vitus playing punk shows in L.A. and being so opposite of what was happening at that point â I think of Winter as being the same.
Oh, totally. Weâd seen Saint Vitus playing with hardcore groups, and people didnât dig them. But youâve gotta remember too, there wasnât as many outlets. Music that was heavier and stuff wasnât really as mainstream. You didnât have as many options of places to play.
Thatâs part of it. Because you were doing what you were doing, where you were doing it, at the time you were doing it, I think Winter is an anchor. If Iâm listening to a band, and I like this band, and I look back at the bands they like, I think Winter has become one of those bands that that trail leads to.
Okay, right on. Thatâs great. Itâs great to be thought of that way.
I think if you talk to someone like Loss and ask them what they like, they might say, âI like this band and this band,â then you go find the bands they like, and that might lead you to Winter. Maybe on the way to Hellhammer, Celtic Frost and things like that, but still.
I never thought that was ever gonna happen (laughs), but itâs kind of cool. Itâs a blessing, the whole thing. We had no idea that it was even gonna be influencing anyone. We just thought it would be a record that just disappeared with a couple people who bought it back in the time period. But hey, I remember when I used to buy a lot of records back in the time period in that genre, and there were groups that were like 10 years earlier than me that I was digging into, and Iâm sure they felt the same way. So I mean, to be felt that way, thatâs great. How many people get to actually say that? We all have friends that are musicians and stuff like that, and donât multiple projects and one of the projects catches on.
The whole Thorn thing. I thought that was a lot more accessible to the masses, and that album like plummeted (laughs). No one got that record, man. Everyone just hated the vocals on it. I thought musically it was kind of an interesting record. I wasnât necessarily in love with the vocals. I thought Winter was definitely the one I was going to hear the least about, because there seemed to be so little interest in it. When we did the Thorn thing, there was actually interest in it, but it ended up being the opposite way around. I guess you never know which way musicâs gonna go sometimes. Iâm glad it came around. I love that shit. I love that album. I think that album â to write that album, we worked with a really great keyboard player at that time, who was old enough to be my dad.
He was in his 60s, and he played Hammond organs and stuff, and we met him through a friend. He used to manage a record store out on Long Island, and he was just a regular guy who had a bunch of organs in his basement. Next thing I know I played him the record as we were recording it and we had him come in and had him lay down the tracks. We told him what we wanted. Even the engineer was like, âWhere the hell did you guys find this guy?â and Iâm like, âI donât know, man. He manages a record store.â And he ended up being this amazing keyboard player.
That was Tony Pinnisi?
That was Tony, yeah. Tony was an interesting guy to work with. He tried out for Richie Blackmoreâs Rainbow and stuff. Heâs the real deal. The only reason he didnât get anything is because he doesnât fly, which is why he didnât come to Roadburn with us. He contacted us. I sat in his living room with his Hammond B3, going over the songs again, and heâs like, âYou know, I canât do this, I canât get on the plane.â Iâm like, âAre you fucking kidding me? Youâre not gonna get on the plane? Itâs the biggest show of your life, man! Come play.â It would have been awesome to have him come play with us.
But [the band] gave us the opportunity to meet really interesting people like him. Thereâs a lot of people that we met along the way that were cool to do that record with. I think the most current is Greg. Southern Lord has definitely turned out to be the right decision, going with that label. Some other ones approached us, like I said, and Iâm not gonna mention names and stuff like that, but Greg definitely put the jumper cables on us, and got us going and let us realize, âPeople really like your record, I want to put it out,â and Iâm like, âOkay. Go ahead. Do it.â And you look at the reissue and the reissueâs actually pretty cool. We found old flyers and stuff like that. Have you seen the reissue of it?
No, I didnât get one. I have my Metal Mind bootleg and my Nuclear Blast version.
Oh dude, the Metal Mind one sounds like shit. Get rid of that. It was mastered horribly. The reissueâs cool, because I had saved and John had saved a lot of the flyers from shows, and we made the booklet. The bookletâs cool though. There are flyers for like Winter and Nausea. Us and Sepultura. All the shows we were talking about, and theyâre oldschool 8âx11â, and weâre like to one of our friends, âYo, draw us a flyer for the show,â and theyâre street flyers. Thatâs whatâs cool about them. Thatâs the real shit.
Like I said, there was no internet. That was, you go out, wheat paste, and you just hit the whole neighborhood, or near where you were playing. Youâre playing in the city? Just start wheat-pasting all around. All the Squat or Rot squatters were in there. Those shows we actually felt like we fit in the best out of any of them. The Squat or Rot shows. The Lucky 13, weâd do shows with us, Nausea, Slaughter, and more of those anarcho-punk bands. Those shows, in that time period, that was the place we were the most comfortable.
What was the difference?
Because they kind of came a little bit more from that background. If I went to check out Nausea, I liked Nausea. Iâm friends with those guys. Or any of the shows that Ralphie â I donât know if you know Ralphie Boy. He used to put on shows called Squat or Rot, and sometimes theyâd be benefits for like Rock Against Racism, or they were more like benefit kind of shows. Some of them just took place in the Lucky 13 squat on the Lower East Side, when the Lower East Side was, like, the Lower East Side. They were like real dingy dirt-hole squats, in a basement. And it was fucking crazy. And those people embraced us more than anyone else.
New York being our home, that was the audience that embraced us the most. We used to play either on Long Island, in Sundance, because we would get offered shows there, and weâd play in Manhattan at the shows that were happening there, the Squat or Rot shows. It was one or the other, really. The bigger shows that we got on Long Island, they were cool, they exposed us to people, but they werenât the people that really wanted to see us. Like I said, those were the people who were like, âYo, I canât mosh to your shit.â And then we played the Lucky 13, and even though it was punk bands and shit, they were either totally intently watching us and getting into it, or, if it was a little part of the song that was fast, they werenât being like, âYo, I canât slamdance to your shit!â They were just like, âAlright, these guys are really slow right here,â and then, when we would pick it up a little bit, they would pick it up a little bit.
Those were the groups that played those shows â âYeah man, letâs put some gigs together â those were the groups we mingled with and made our nest with, and those flyers that were in the reissue. Iâm speaking to Greg this week, I think theyâre repressing the CD, but the vinyl has the actual flyers, and the groups that are on there, like the Rock Against Racism shows, groups like Born Against, Slaughter, Nausea, Apostate, The Radicts, and all those punk, and those kind of groups were where we fit in. The groups we loved were like Amebix, Discharge. Thatâs the whole reason weâre playing the show in Texas â because Antisect is on the bill â I think the only reason weâre playing it, because John really loves Antsect. John loves those guys. When we were kids, he had it painted on the back of his jacket. They were a group he was into, and hey man, itâd be cool to open for Antisect â even though itâs not the real Antisect â thereâs a lot of people missing. That was like the clincher: âIf we can go on right before Antisect,â and weâre just cracking up. Weâre like, âDude, weâre like 40 years old and we still want to open up for bands we liked when we were teenagers.â
But thatâs whatâs cool about it. You want to embrace it. Thatâs the best part of the whole thing. Youâre being appreciated for what youâre doing finally, and now itâs like, âHey man, would you like to play this festival?â and youâre like, âNah, not really,â and then you look and Antisectâs playing it. âAs long as we can go on before Antisect.â Thatâs what itâs really about anyway. Look. I have a job. We all have a job. Weâre not really making any money from doing it, so the only other reason to do it is because you want to have fun doing it and get the whole humor and the whole thing and enjoy it. If I had to live off of it (laughs), Iâd be starving right now. Itâs not like weâre making any money off of it. But like I said, those were the groups that were important. People keep saying to us, we keep getting the question, âOh, you guys said you were never part of the death metal scene, that you didnât want to be labeled,â because that was in the record. When that thing was written, it was 1988, man. Things were definitely divided. They were together, but they were still kind of divided.
The death metal people, man. They didnât really⌠Death metal was different then, and thrash heads, it was still divided, and we were not really accepted. What was happening at that time period was like Sepultura. Your big dogs were Slayer, Sepultura and all those groups on Combat Records, so like Possessed, and Exodus and all that thrash stuff that happened at the time. Dude, those people didnât like us. So we were not really a part of that, and all the groups that were more into the death metal scene sang about Satan and stuff like that. Couldnât really relate to them either, because lyrically, thatâs not where we were at anyway. Our stuff might have been apocalyptic as far as lyrics, but we were socially aware of what was going on around us, more like an Amebix, or a Discharge, or Antisect, or Conflict. Those are the groups that I think lyrically made us think.
Like I said, I love Slayer, I love Frost. I like them musically. As far as lyrically, it was always more the punk groups that grabbed me, because it was like reading the newspaper, what was here today and what was going on currently. But I liked the mysticism of the way it was written. Certain people, like Tom Warrior, had a way of taking certain things and not making it sound like in-your-face. In-your-face is cool if youâre Cro-Mags or Agnostic Front, and I totally respect that. I respect that more than being like, âI have an upside down cross carved in my head and I love the devil and talking about the occult.â I couldnât relate to that stuff, and nor could John or anyone else in the group. So the lyrics being the way they were, weâd talk about certain things, and weâd give them to Joey, the drummer, because he was really into writing â he actually wrote poetry and stuff like that â and he took themes of ideas that we had, and he goes, âAh, I get the idea of what youâre talking about,â and heâd write stuff, and it would kind of be intertwined in the lyrics. Some people might take those lyrics â thereâs not a thing in any of the Winter lyrics about the occult, or Satanism, or anything like that.
All that stuff, if you read the lyrics, âHorsemen echoing in the wind,â thereâs imagery of things, ancient civilizations or whatever, that the problems they had at their time â uprising against power or whatever â are the same things we have going on in current day. We just chose that as the vehicle of where the lyrics should be written. Itâs someone speaking in a different tongue, and Joe was able to do that. So when people are like, âYou guys are death metalâ â âNo, not really. Not really at all.â People that saw us, thatâs not where it was at. We liked the darker sounding stuff, but we didnât really care for the lyrics. I felt that was a definitive thing of why we said that.
We actually put almost like a bio in there of where our head was at, to let people know. Our names are not even on that album, and nor is there a picture. We truly wanted people to listen to the album, âHey man, you like this album? It doesnât matter what the fuck we look like, and you donât need to know our names or nothing. Just listen to the record. Sit on your bed, pull the record out, read the one thing thatâs in the center of it which sums it all up.â Thereâs that thing, the sun design, thereâs writing in it.
I donât know how blurry it is on your Nuclear Blast one, but on the first pressing, you could actually read it (laughs). Every generation just got worse and worse and worse, and I think itâs to the point now where it looks like youâre trying to read the Torah after itâs been in a fire or something like that. Itâs like, whatever. Itâs been Xeroxed like 10,000 times. But yeah, I guess lyrically, thatâs kind of where our head was at.
We keep getting interviews, and people keep alluding to that, âWell, now youâre playing Deathfest,â and Iâm like, âListen. Thatâs where theyâre appreciating music right now. I donât know what to tell you.â I donât hate those people. Morbid Angelâs on the bill. I donât even know Morbid Angel. I mean, I know who they are, but I donât know them as people. They might be cool guys for all I know. I donât care, nor do I judge them. I just know that, for us, itâs a place to play where people actually want to see us. So be it. You canât have everything. Play wherever people want you to play. At this point, right now, itâs a blessing.
So these people, âYouâre contradicting. Youâre playing Deathfest,â and Iâm the same person now I was back then. A lot of the struggles that people have currently are the same. Itâs the same shit that was going on then. It doesnât change. Governmentâs still sucking the life out of everything like it did then. The elite think theyâre still elite, and those problems still exist. Theyâre not really changing â beware of it. I donât judge any of those other groups. The Chaos thing is more of a hardcore thing, and the Maryland Deathfest has its own thing. Power of the Riff had its own. They all do. I think now everything is so homogenized and digested anyway, whatâs the fucking difference? Youâre happy to come and see us, fine.
I think theyâre trying to find something hypocritical. We never said we were revolutionaries either. We just said listen, thatâs not really a scene â death metal â that we gear ourselves towards. If people in that scene like us musically, thatâs cool. The same way I really like Hellhammer and Frost â I use them because theyâre a huge influence. I really like them musically, but I donât necessarily like their lyrics, where some people might like their lyrics more than their music. Whatever. You get my point.
Tell me about the new material. About picking up and writing again, going back and revisiting older stuff and bringing new things to it. How is the process different now than it was then?
I think trying to recreate the wheel⌠Winter already has a sound, and after this all, we want to keep that intact. If I want to do something experimental, whatever, I could do that with John in another completely different project. We definitely want to keep the music in that vein, of what Into Darkness was, but now that we have Jimmy writing with us â and I think weâre all better players â I think weâll be able to pull off the execution of several ideas that we couldnât in the past.
We might be able to be better at doing it now. But definitely keeping it in the same vein, I guess youâd say. Like I said, I always thought Into Darkness was a good album. We had some recording issues with the way it sounds, but I always thought it was a good record, so weâre going to kind of try and write another record kind of like that. In that vein. Itâs been good writing. Itâs like, if we tried to write the next record right after that, in some period, I think it mightâve gone in a direction that people might not have appreciated it the way Into Darkness is appreciated today.
Whyâs that?
We all have records that, you know, the second album, the third album, and the first albumâs the best one. Well, the first album you have your whole life to write. So you have a lot of material and you just pick what you feel is the best and it makes the strongest album. Now that weâve had a lot of time and weâve gone back to some older ideas that weâve had â and Iâm pretty good at archiving shit, so I have tons of cassettes of old songs that we maybe canned it and so on and start getting parts out of it â I think itâll just be a better record to keep it real straightforward of what it was at that time. I donât want it to be like one of those second albums. You can come back with just as strong a second album, I feel, if you really focus on, âWhat do you really want from the record?â
I definitely want it to have that same depth, and all the same voicing and stuff. I definitely want keyboards on it. I definitely want Tony involved in the writing. He might not be the guy to go on the tour with or anything like that, but I definitely want to write with a real organ player, and I definitely want to keep some of the tonal qualities that makes Winter what it is. Like the guitars I use for Winter, Winter has guitars that are in their own tuning, and used just for Winter, and it could be mutated and it doesnât work with other groups, but for some reason, it works with what Winter does. All that same equipment, we still have. Itâs been in the fucking basement in road cases for 25 years.
All that shit we used, except for the Rectifier heads, has been sitting around for like 25 years. I never had to sell it, so it just sat there. For the new record, weâre going to use all the same shit. That was the one thing when we played the Power of the Riff. Greg pulled us aside and he was like, âIâve seen so many groups come back and they use all fancy new gear and everything. They forgot the most important thing: the tone of their sound.â And heâs like, âYou guys sound exactly like you sound on the record,â and Iâm like, âDude, we used the exact same equipment as we used on the record!â Nothingâs really changed. That guitar that I had, thatâs the guitar my friend made me in high school. All these cabinets that I use, and all the shit I use, the pedals and shit like that, itâs the same shit I used from then.
Theyâve just been sitting in a case, and so the tone is exactly the same. Itâs almost like weâve taken up where we left off, except with a different drummer. I wonât say better, but Iâll say different. I think Joe was great to write with. Joe was a really artistic guy. We couldnât get in touch with him. Tried to, but heâs lost in space.
The next album â we wonât just put it out for the sake of putting it out. Weâll put it out because we feel itâs worthy of putting out. Thatâs the one benefit of being in the place we are. I have my life that I do and I like what I do, and I know all those guys feel the same way. This is just an added thing for life thatâs something we believed in thatâs finally getting appreciated and weâre getting to revisit it. And we donât have to be this touring group to support it, so we can truly be engulfed in the creative part without worrying about making money from it. The money means absolutely nothing to Winter, really, as far as survival. Whereas in 1989, I was fucking starving to make that record, and we all kind of were. Thatâs what it was. I was 19 years old when that record came out.
We can be even more creative in this day and age than we could then, because weâre a little bit more focused as people. Weâre not distracted by drugs and all the other shit that came along with it. So thatâs why I think itâll be a good record if it materializes. And I donât know if itâll necessarily happen in a year. It might take time. But if it needs another year and a half to put it together, I think itâll be a really good record. Hopefully Gregâll like it and heâll want to put it out. That guyâs putting records out constantly, so who knows if heâll have room to put it out, but weâll see.
Do you have any idea when youâll record? How much more writing do you have to do?
Probably have to write maybe another four songs. Weâre going to play one of the new ones at Deathfest. I didnât really want to headline it, but I guess thatâs cool (laughs). No, if you go on like, before the headliner, then if thereâs no people, you wonât know if theyâre there for you or not. If youâre the headiner and thereâs crickets, youâre like, âAh dude, nobodyâs here to see Winter.â Then in the middle of the set, you donât know who theyâre there for. Roadburn was perfect, because we went on right before Corrosion of Conformity. It was Corrosion of Conformity and then SunnO))), and it was like, âMan, it was packed when you guys were on!â If we were last, maybe it wouldnât have been that way.
I think youâll be okay.
(Laughs) I hope so.
Tags: New York, Southern Lord, Winter