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 Post subject: Why in the hell did Judas Priest ever sack Les Binks?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:58 am 
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The Binks wiki page says they wanted "less technical drumming", but there has to another reason than that. The videos from the Holland era are goddamned embarassing, from a drumming perspective. I can see them wanting to go into a more lunk-headed/anthemic direction in general at 'British Steel', but it wasn't like Binks couldn't pull the more straight forward stuff off and man, you lose so much as a band downgrading your drummer like they did. His drumming wasn't jarring to their style, like say that album Stanton Moore did with C.O.C. a few years back.

I don't think there has ever been a good JP bio, but maybe someone here (looking at GodShifter) might have picked up a nugget along the way about the reason for the change.

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 Post subject: Re: Why in the hell did Judas Priest ever sack Les Binks?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:05 am 
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It's like asking why did Deep Purple get rid of Nick Simper, or why did Iron Maiden get rid of Dennis Stratton?
I'll never get an answer that satisfies me.

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 Post subject: Re: Why in the hell did Judas Priest ever sack Les Binks?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:54 am 

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I've always wondered about that, too. Money probably had something to do with it. Many years ago I worked briefly with Tom Allom, Priest's producer, but Binks was already out of the band by the time he started working for them.

Rudy Lenners shouls have stayed with the Scorps, too.

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 Post subject: Re: Why in the hell did Judas Priest ever sack Les Binks?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:23 am 
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My understanding of it is Binks quit as opposed to being fired. He wasn't happy with the direction the band wanted to go -- more straight forward rock -- i.e. less tempo changes and so forth. He basically left the band due to 'musical differences'. Also, as I recall, there was some issue as to how much Binks and Ian Hill meshed in terms of their rhythm section. At the time, they felt it would be better to bring someone a bit more rudimentary in terms of their approach to the drums -- Dave Holland. Holland certainly fit the bill in terms of his 'workman like style'.

It's funny, though, because with Painkiller, Priest hired Scott Travis, formerly of Racer X, to replace Holland. You want to talk about a big difference? But, by then, it was clear Priest wanted to try and become a bit more technical and involve some more complex rhythms and a faster style than the previous albums. After all, Turbo or Ram It Down had not been very well received by the fans. So with hiring Tavis it was almost like they were trying to replicate the era with Binks once again.


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 Post subject: Re: Why in the hell did Judas Priest ever sack Les Binks?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:53 am 
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GodShifter wrote:
After all, Turbo or Ram It Down had not been very well received by the fans. So with hiring Tavis it was almost like they were trying to replicate the era with Binks once again.



I never got the impression they were trying to replicate a past era so much as they were trying to keep with the times. "Painkiller" came out in 1990 when thrash was at its peak & death metal was on the rise. That album show those influences imo.

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 Post subject: Re: Why in the hell did Judas Priest ever sack Les Binks?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:20 am 
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Jötun wrote:
GodShifter wrote:
After all, Turbo or Ram It Down had not been very well received by the fans. So with hiring Tavis it was almost like they were trying to replicate the era with Binks once again.



I never got the impression they were trying to replicate a past era so much as they were trying to keep with the times. "Painkiller" came out in 1990 when thrash was at its peak & death metal was on the rise. That album show those influences imo.



^ This

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 Post subject: Re: Why in the hell did Judas Priest ever sack Les Binks?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:39 am 
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GodShifter wrote:
My understanding of it is Binks quit as opposed to being fired. He wasn't happy with the direction the band wanted to go -- more straight forward rock -- i.e. less tempo changes and so forth. He basically left the band due to 'musical differences'. Also, as I recall, there was some issue as to how much Binks and Ian Hill meshed in terms of their rhythm section. At the time, they felt it would be better to bring someone a bit more rudimentary in terms of their approach to the drums -- Dave Holland. Holland certainly fit the bill in terms of his 'workman like style'.

It's funny, though, because with Painkiller, Priest hired Scott Travis, formerly of Racer X, to replace Holland. You want to talk about a big difference? But, by then, it was clear Priest wanted to try and become a bit more technical and involve some more complex rhythms and a faster style than the previous albums. After all, Turbo or Ram It Down had not been very well received by the fans. So with hiring Tavis it was almost like they were trying to replicate the era with Binks once again.



What he said...

Personally I think when Binks went, Priest starting to go downhill. I never liked anything they did too much till Painkiller came out and the best Priest albums are from the Binks era IMO.

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 Post subject: Re: Why in the hell did Judas Priest ever sack Les Binks?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:47 am 
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Jötun wrote:
GodShifter wrote:
After all, Turbo or Ram It Down had not been very well received by the fans. So with hiring Tavis it was almost like they were trying to replicate the era with Binks once again.



I never got the impression they were trying to replicate a past era so much as they were trying to keep with the times. "Painkiller" came out in 1990 when thrash was at its peak & death metal was on the rise. That album show those influences imo.


What I meant by 'try to replicate an era' was, essentially, returning to the faster, more complex style of earlier stuff. But I absolutely agree that Painkiller was an attempt to stay current -- with the thrash metal moment, etc. Wasn't Painkiller and Rust in Peace released within weeks of each other almost?


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 Post subject: Re: Why in the hell did Judas Priest ever sack Les Binks?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:15 pm 
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I don't think so. I remember seeing Megadeth on the Rust in Peace tour a couple of times in 1991. Painkiller didn't come out until my sophomore year of college, which was two years later.

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 Post subject: Re: Why in the hell did Judas Priest ever sack Les Binks?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:47 pm 
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Well, you're wrong and I'm right. Both were released in September of 1990. 21 days apart, in fact.

Edit: ^That sounded snottier than I meant it to. I just wikipedia'd the albums and it turns out I was correct.


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 Post subject: Re: Why in the hell did Judas Priest ever sack Les Binks?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:04 pm 
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I wouldn't be surprised. I'm often wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: Why in the hell did Judas Priest ever sack Les Binks?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:22 pm 

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 Post subject: Re: Why in the hell did Judas Priest ever sack Les Binks?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:17 pm 
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Dave Holland + Al Atkins =

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 Post subject: Re: Why in the hell did Judas Priest ever sack Les Binks?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:23 am 
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GodShifter wrote:
My understanding of it is Binks quit as opposed to being fired. He wasn't happy with the direction the band wanted to go -- more straight forward rock -- i.e. less tempo changes and so forth. He basically left the band due to 'musical differences'. Also, as I recall, there was some issue as to how much Binks and Ian Hill meshed in terms of their rhythm section. At the time, they felt it would be better to bring someone a bit more rudimentary in terms of their approach to the drums -- Dave Holland. Holland certainly fit the bill in terms of his 'workman like style'.


So yeah, as I figured, Godshifter for the win. I guess I should have figured Binks left on his own. That guy was fucking great! I guess the other side of the coin is why couldn't Priest find someone more accomplished to fill in for him? I guess they left it up to Ian Hill and those guys probably came up and played a lot of pubs together in the day? Yeah, that's probably it and also explains a lot of the 80's Black Sabbath lineups as well.

As far as Steve Harris replacing Dennis Stratton with Adrian Smith, Harris had his eyes on the prize in the early 80's. The same as sacking Di'Anno. They would have continued being a functional, kick-ass band of the time with those guys but when you listen to Harris' words, he wasn't completely happy with it all until NotB/Piece of Mind. It's understandable because he hasn't deviated from that format at all since then, even given the unfuckable-ness of the S/T album and 'Killers'.

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 Post subject: Re: Why in the hell did Judas Priest ever sack Les Binks?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:33 am 
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Its not always strategic planning, sometimes its just people not getting along. Without having any inside info I would say that Di'Anno seems to be a rather annoying fellow. Great voice but probably not somebody you want to share a tourbus with for 18 month.
As for Dave Holland replacing Binks I guess the band knew him from a decade touring the same circuits. And its obvious that Priest wanted to crack the US-market with more radio-friendly songs and arrangements.


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 Post subject: Re: Why in the hell did Judas Priest ever sack Les Binks?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:55 pm 

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Should I start a separate thread for Rudy Lenners vs. Herman Rarebells or is it OK to discuss that matter here?

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 Post subject: Re: Why in the hell did Judas Priest ever sack Les Binks?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:14 pm 

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jmucke wrote:
Without having any inside info I would say that Di'Anno seems to be a rather annoying fellow. Great voice but probably not somebody you want to share a tourbus with for 18 month.


The man himself makes it clear on every page of his autobiography The Beast that he is an utter, utter cunt. You wouldn't want to spend 18 minutes in his company, never mind 18 months.


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 Post subject: Why in the hell did Judas Priest ever sack Les Binks?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:48 pm 
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Just a side note here but the Painkiller show I saw in ABQ years ago is still probably the loudest show I've ever seen. Almost painfully so. And I've seen Motörhead in smaller rooms probably 10 times.


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