It's amazing to me when I listen to radio and these guys I listen to do a show called "What's On My TiVO". They talk about all these shows I've never seen a minute of: "Breaking Bad", "The Wire", "It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia" and whatever else. It almost makes me feel bad that I'm missing this quality TV, but, to be honest, the thought of trying to catch up with all this stuff via DVD just gives me the cold sweats. No, thanks.

I've never seen an episode of any of the CSI shows, nor the NCIS shit, no Law & Order vehicles (sorry, Dan), or a ton of other shit that's, apparently, very good but I always seem to miss it. I was going to try and catch some "Justified" because I like T. Olyphant a lot, but I've never gotten around to seeing five seconds of it. I never saw any of "The Sopranos" either, nor "Weeds" or "Dexter" or much of anything else, really.

Yeah. You're missing out on the good stuff dude.

I say give the DVD's a shot. Especially of the "The Wire" or "Arrested Development" (if you haven't). You never know, they might hook you.

I've never seen once second of "Arrested Development" either.

You're chicken!

There's so much good TV right now, thanks to cable stations getting into the production game. "The Wire" for instance is easily one of the greatest creative works - regardless of medium - of this nascent century. I'd put it up against any book, film or work of visual art.

Literature has taken a bit of a nose dive. There are still great books being written, but we're not in the mid-20th century anymore. There hasn't been a massively important fiction writer since DFW. In the 50s there were dozens of DFW-level dudes getting published.


Visual art, too. Mostly meh. Blame post modernism, or just a general lack of interest. And film... don't even go there. Hollywood screwed that pooch.

So to say "I don't watch TV" is to say that you are willfully ignoring the delivery medium for many of our era's most essential works of art (and by the way, if you are watching it on DVD or computer you are still "watching TV"). Unless you're fucking Amish, I don't really get the statement. I mean just because you own a TV, and it's hooked up to cable, doesn't mean you have to sit passively in front of it for hours on end. If you do, that's a different sort of problem, and the broadcasters ain't to blame. It also doesn't mean you have to watch every piece of shit reality show with a Kardashian in it.

Just like you don't get props for being an avid reader if you read only Tom Clancy and Twilight. There's plenty of text-based shit, too. A lot more than there is on TV, probably.

I don't watch very much TV, I just don't have time for it. But I have my few shows that I TiVo and I'm always happy when I get a chance to watch them. Christ, TV's giving us "Breaking Bad" right now. Literature isn't giving us that. Film isn't. It took an edgy network, a talented writer/creator and some kick-ass actors and directors. TV is where it's at, man.

I watch PBS online. I would watch the History Channel, Animal Planet, stations like that, however, I do not feel the need to buy cable solely for the purpose of watching a select handful of shows that I can eventually buy the DVD of, used, for a lot less money. If I go to a friend's house, I will watch what is on, and perhaps even enjoy it for a bit. The commercials inevitably turn me off. Most shows these days do not have enough gusto to actually draw me in, make me feel any sense of pathos with the characters, or otherwise interest me in the slightest. If you find that pretentious, perhaps you should look in the mirror, because television is pretense in one of its purest forms.

Arrested Development is pure genius.

I missed it when it first aired. Couldnt be bothered. Thought it was another one like these new fell good family wastes like Modern Family

I havent seen Arnett or Bateman be able to capture what the show makers captured since either. They keep tossing Arnett in this goofy roles, and all you can see him as, is Gob..unfortunately they both seem to have that effect on me whenever I see them in anything new. At this point, I dont even want it ruined by this supposed movie they were going to make.

aww man that coop video is win

I hate when someone argues how television is nothing but crap and then goes on to list the worst shows tv has to offer as their proof. That's like saying music is nothing but crap and listing bands/artists like Britney Spears, Puddle of Mudd, Chumbawamba, etc as their evidence.

Or saying you don't read books because of Danielle Steel and Tom Clancy.

^^
See above for win.

But television is mostly crap. While the bands you listed are evidence of shit, it's not proof of overall shit. But again, most music is shit. When it comes to subjectivity most of everything is shit to most people. Even people who say they listen to everything is straight up lying or is ignorant of dozens of genres.

For me, the overall amount of shit on television is not enough for me to wade through in order to get a couple gems. I don't pay for TV and instead opt for downloading shows that have some buzz around them.

Even the absolute best show on TV is forgettable and your life would not be hindered in any way if you have never watched it. The same cannot be said for music, books, movies.

Absolutely incorrect. 100% false. Just wrong, wrong, wrong.


There has not been ONE ALBUM released in the last 4 years that has exceeds Breaking Bad in creative merit.

The best of the current fine art scene can't hold a candle to The Sopranos.

And I'd posit that The Wire is a greater work of art than any other, in ANY medium, released during it time on air.

Bad grammar, not withstanding, MILLION MAN makes a compelling argument for me to check out both "Breaking Bad" and "The Wire". I just might have to do that. "Arrested Development", too.

Meh, The Sopranos sucked. The real life exploits of the mob were much more entertaining. Breaking Bad might be entertaining, but it's just... I don't know. I'm tempted to say soulless, but that's not right. Maybe hollow.

I haven't seen the Wire, so I can't comment on that.

Dramas:

The Wire
Breaking Bad
Mad Men
Friday Night Lights


Comedy:

Arrested Development
Community
Futurama
Daily Show/Colbert Report
^^edit: MST3K and The Larry Sanders Show for you tv history buffs.


If you haven't seen these shows, you haven't seen how good TV can get. And it is worth it. There are still crap movies, but you don't hear anyone saying well fuck seeing movies because it's mostly crap.

Well see, that's the thing Crutch. Take the best TV shows of all time. And if you have never watched them, you wouldn't really have missed out. It's not like never seeing Seven Samurai, Citizen Kane or 2001. If you haven't seen those movies you have definitely missed out.

Oh I must disagree. I don't know where I'd be if it weren't for the Simpsons. And I would say if you've never seen an truly great episode of The Simpsons; than yes, it is the equivolent to me of not seeing a cinematic classic.

The Wire is the best production in all of film in the last decade. Honestly, I think the linear series is just a better format than a 120 minute movie. With the series you have much more time to develop characters and storylines. It's almost novel like. Granted, I will always want to be able to see a movie and have it be resolved in 2 hours but I think the TV series is just more rewarding.

1. Movies aren't limited to 2 hours. But you make a good point about length. It's a shame though that it's rarely used well.

2. I used to watch the Simpsons, stopped around season 7 I think... If I have never watched it, the only thing I would have missed out on is some references a couple of friends of mine made. The Simpsons didn't really provide anything of substance for me. Yeah it had some laughs, but those laughs could have come from anywhere. The Simpsons (to me) is the Dane Cook of cartoons.

You guys keep mentioning The Wire, is that really the only show? The exception to the rule?

You clearly just don't enjoy television. That's fine but also a personal, subjective perspective.

Television done right is out there and it serves as much a purpose as anything else done right. A lot of television is intended as popcorn entertainment, sure, but if done right than it serves its purpose. Just like a Dan Brown novel or a Quentin Tarantino movie. None of those things leave a major imprint in your life, except maybe a scene or two of amusement that you can look back on and it still make you laugh, smile, cry, etc.

But there is plenty of television out there that is not so one dimensional. Shows like The Wire (which deserves all the love it has generated), South Park, Daily Show, etc. all are quality shows that can leave an impression on the viewer, have them thinking about issues that impact their lives as much as a Matthew Riddley book or, say, American History X might have. You might not enjoy watching those shows, just like someone else might not enjoy reading Riddley's An Agile Gene or another person watching American History. Me, I had to turn Citizen Kane off mid-stream, does that make that movie horrible or does it just mean I didn't like it?

This. One can do so much more in television in terms of story and character development. The difference being that show creators have just started to realize the full potential of the medium, and/or networks (especially cable outlets such as HBO, AMC, FX) have only recently allowed them to exploit it.

Remember, motion pictures were first exhibited in the 1890s. But the medium didn’t reach its full creative potential until many, many decades later. It wasn’t really until the 50s – 70s when filmmakers realized what they could do with the medium, and studios were smart (dumb) enough to let them do it. That’s where TV’s at now.

I mean I love the Godfather, but Tony Soprano’s a much more complex character than Michael Corleone. Characters in films are comparatively static. Oh sure, they have their “arc,” their “hero’s journey” or whatever Syd Field’s calling it this week… but it’s usually a simple, straight line. They don’t evolve ala Walter White. They can’t! They have roughly two hours to do what it is they need to do. That’s two episodes of TV. Barely a drop in the bucket.

So if TV’s not your thing, that’s fine. But you’re not a position to look down your nose at the medium, any more than someone who doesn’t read books. It’s exactly, 100% the same thing.

That's some cold shit dude.



I certainly respect your opinion but if you give it a fair shake; you'll find there's a rich history of quality television whose accomplishments in artistic visual storytelling that can rival even the most rigid of aesthetic cinematic standards. It's a format that is younger but has taken less time to evolve into what it has become compared to how long it took cinema to get where it's at today. You can argue about whether that's a good thing, but then you'd have to argue that about cinema as well.

Oh don't get me wrong... I'm not trying to state my subjective opinion as objective fact. If you can show me an equivalent to The Human Condition trilogy in TV form, I'll change my mind.

But I've given TV a fair shake. I even still watch a show or two that I DL. But it's just lacking. I'm not looking down my nose at people that watch TV. Except for the reality show junkies lol.

TV-series have become so much better in the last years (with The Wire being way ahead of the rest) that I - being a total movie-nut for decades who despised televisions - find the good series more exciting than 99% of movies being released in the same time.