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 Post subject: Re: Baseball 2012
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:54 pm 
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I'd rather give Papelbon that deal than Madsen his supposed deal, but that's too too many years for a closer. And it was only like a season ago that there was talk of Papelbon losing his closers job due to a decline in performance. How one good season can make a difference.


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 Post subject: Re: Baseball 2012
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:44 pm 

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Papelbon deal has an "easy" to reach 1 year/$10mil option. 5 years/$60mil for a guy that is moving out of his prime, has never pitched more than 70 innings in a season, and has a questionable shoulder? I say again, "ha."

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 Post subject: Re: Baseball 2012
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:36 am 
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Bullio wrote:
5 years/$60mil.


For real? Man, bad deal. the Phillies are really gonna be hating it if they don't win a series while they've got Halladay and Lee under contract.

A lot of the chatter has Reyes going to Miami. DC is wanting to spend loads of dough this offseason as well. That division is going to be off the hook the next couple of years.

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 Post subject: Re: Baseball 2012
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:44 am 

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you mean alot of chatter has reyes visiting the marlins right now. i dont think reyes signs with the marlins. and if he does then its a mistake for both sides. im not sure if jose reyes is the best influence on hanley ramirez. i despise the way the marlins build teams. when the marlins build a team they overpay and build juggernauts. then 2 years from now after they win a championship they will completely dismantle the team because they cant afford to pay the guys the stupid contracts they gave them. reyrey is dumb enough to sign with them

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 Post subject: Re: Baseball 2012
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 11:58 am 
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No telling if Pap is a long term guy or will flame out. He's had some stinkers. But then again, so did Brad Lidge.

I read a few weeks ago the Nats were looking at Fielder, CJ Wilson and Reyes. That's a lot of cheddar. How's that massive Jason Werth deal working out? Washington needs to hire Prince just as a bodyguard for their pitching staff. A big dude like him could probably take on a few kidnappers.

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 Post subject: Re: Baseball 2012
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:38 pm 

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Speaking of, Ramos was found safe by police last night.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd ... b&c_id=mlb

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 Post subject: Re: Baseball 2012
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 4:19 pm 
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Good news about Ramos.

That potential 5th year makes that deal even worse. Long contracts with closers never work out. Papelbon deserves to get the highest annual salary of any of the closers on the market but that contract has the potential to look really bad by the end.


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 Post subject: Re: Baseball 2012
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 5:40 pm 
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So now the hustlers that run the Miami Marlins think they’re different. They’ve got a new name, new uniforms and a new ballpark. They’re promising the world to big-name free agents. And they want everyone to buy it like something actually has changed, like the moral bankruptcy with which they have run their franchise for nine years disappeared with rebranding.

On the same day Albert Pujols(notes) met with the Marlins and reportedly received a contract offer, and days after the franchise courted Jose Reyes(notes) and Mark Buehrle(notes) and Yoenis Cespedes, too, the ploy worked. People talked about the Marlins like they were a legitimate franchise and not a business for owner Jeffrey Loria to plunder, as he has for some time.

Loria stood up in front of an eager crowd at what he called “the coolest ballpark ever,” the Marlins’ new stadium that he bullied a group of feckless politicians into funding against all proper judgment, and soaked in adulation like he was LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh. He apes their style. If only there was an ounce of substance to go with it.

By now, you’d think people would have a fundamental understanding about money that comes out of nowhere: It tends to disappear in a hurry. Our economy collapsed because dreamers were preyed upon. And now the Marlins, who pushed an underfunded county to take out more than $400 million in loans because Loria and team president David Samson said they couldn’t afford to stay in Miami without a new ballpark, want to act as if they are terminally ill with one last trip to the Spearmint Rhino on the docket.

So which is it, guys? Are you the Little Sisters of the Poor or the sharks who dine at Prime One Twelve?

A stadium does not turn a team from one into the other, not by itself. There can be streams of revenue when moving from old football haunt Sun Life Stadium to a baseball-only jewel (or, in the case of the Marlins’ stadium, jewels, of which this abomination of an “art” installation to be unleashed upon every home run features far too many). Rarely is it franchise-changing money, at least in the long term, if recent history is any indication.

Since 2001, 11 MLB teams have moved into new stadiums. In the first year, eight increased payroll over the previous season, and the three that didn’t dropped less than 5 percent. By Year 3, five of 10 teams lowered payroll from the year before. In Year 4, it was four out of seven, and the three that increased payroll did so by less than 4 percent.

The Pittsburgh Pirates’ payroll rose 82 percent when PNC Park opened. They’ve had one season over that figure, $52.7 million, in the 10 since – and none in the last eight.

Last season, the San Diego Padres’ eighth since christening Petco Park, their opening day payroll was $45.9 million – $2 million less than in 2004.

The point: Unless the Marlins build a perpetually competitive team (a la the Philadelphia Phillies) or start packing the stadium (like the Milwaukee Brewers) – plus have ownership willing to take the sort of risks Loria and Samson have never taken – the Marlins are going to be just like any other team with a new stadium: at the mercy of a fickle fan base that responds only to winning.

And whether Miami even cares about that is suspect. The Marlins, remember, averaged 16,089 fans per game in 2003, when they won the World Series. Attendance has held steady at an official 18,000 or so the last three years, a number so inflated Goodyear ought to sponsor its announcement every night. The idea that the Marlins will suddenly pack the stadium with 30,000 fans a night beyond the honeymoon period of 2012 is laughable. Chances are they won’t even reach 30,000 a night this season, and the coolest ballpark ever will turn into little more than Nationals Park 2.0: a boondoggle of the highest order.

Were the Marlins’ television rights up for auction, perhaps this impending spending spree would make more sense. Fox Sports Florida holds them through 2020.

So where is this money coming from? Are the Marlins, the franchise that pocketed so much shared revenue that complaints from the players’ union and larger-market owners prompted Major League Baseball to tell the franchise to spend some damn money, going to suddenly change because they’ve come into more revenue? Cheapskates that make more money are still cheapskates. They’re just richer cheapskates.

The Marlins have already conned politicians. Now they’re trying to do the same to build a fan base. Look at this shiny Pujols. Behold this beautiful Reyes. Covet this glimmering Cespedes. We’re trying. We really are.

What they don’t say: Come back in three years and see what we look like.

Because by then, unless people from Broward and Palm Beach counties really want to travel to Little Havana through brutal traffic – and all indications are they don’t – the Marlins are going to be exactly where they were: sunk by an indifferent fan base and ownership that carries itself like it knows what it’s doing.

“Who takes them seriously?” said one source familiar with the Marlins’ operations. “They’re not going to draw. That’s going to be a disaster. Loria is like an awful version of [George] Steinbrenner. They’re afraid to question the guy because of ramifications.

“Look at what Logan Morrison(notes) did. That creates a bad environment when they’re all afraid of the big cheese.

Morrison, a talented outfielder, was too candid for Loria’s taste on Twitter and found himself at Triple-A. He wasn’t the first person to end up in Loria’s doghouse, and he won’t be the last. Anyone who can thieve tax dollars to build a playground of profit and pat himself on the back for it suffers from the sort of megalomania not even a lobotomy could cure.

The Marlins can appear aggressive with the cost of a plane ticket and a hotel room for players they court. They can throw a term sheet in front of an agent. Hell, they might even sign Reyes, though good luck on doing so without sending longtime shortstop Hanley Ramirez(notes), he of Loria’s perpetual enabling, into a hissy fit.

Pujols says he is going to listen to God when it comes to where he plays next. And if indeed it is a kind and benevolent God, it will take one look at the Marlins’ new uniforms and spare Pujols the indignity.

Dysfunction breeds itself in south Florida, no matter the franchise’s name, its look, its stadium. Loria, wanting to let go of the past Friday night, chucked a Florida Marlins hat into the crowd, as if to say: In with the new.

Give it a little time. Soon enough, it will look just like the old.



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 Post subject: Re: Baseball 2012
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 5:45 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:06 pm
Posts: 2332
Location: new york
Adam wrote:
Quote:
So now the hustlers that run the Miami Marlins think they’re different. They’ve got a new name, new uniforms and a new ballpark. They’re promising the world to big-name free agents. And they want everyone to buy it like something actually has changed, like the moral bankruptcy with which they have run their franchise for nine years disappeared with rebranding.

On the same day Albert Pujols(notes) met with the Marlins and reportedly received a contract offer, and days after the franchise courted Jose Reyes(notes) and Mark Buehrle(notes) and Yoenis Cespedes, too, the ploy worked. People talked about the Marlins like they were a legitimate franchise and not a business for owner Jeffrey Loria to plunder, as he has for some time.

Loria stood up in front of an eager crowd at what he called “the coolest ballpark ever,” the Marlins’ new stadium that he bullied a group of feckless politicians into funding against all proper judgment, and soaked in adulation like he was LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh. He apes their style. If only there was an ounce of substance to go with it.

By now, you’d think people would have a fundamental understanding about money that comes out of nowhere: It tends to disappear in a hurry. Our economy collapsed because dreamers were preyed upon. And now the Marlins, who pushed an underfunded county to take out more than $400 million in loans because Loria and team president David Samson said they couldn’t afford to stay in Miami without a new ballpark, want to act as if they are terminally ill with one last trip to the Spearmint Rhino on the docket.

So which is it, guys? Are you the Little Sisters of the Poor or the sharks who dine at Prime One Twelve?

A stadium does not turn a team from one into the other, not by itself. There can be streams of revenue when moving from old football haunt Sun Life Stadium to a baseball-only jewel (or, in the case of the Marlins’ stadium, jewels, of which this abomination of an “art” installation to be unleashed upon every home run features far too many). Rarely is it franchise-changing money, at least in the long term, if recent history is any indication.

Since 2001, 11 MLB teams have moved into new stadiums. In the first year, eight increased payroll over the previous season, and the three that didn’t dropped less than 5 percent. By Year 3, five of 10 teams lowered payroll from the year before. In Year 4, it was four out of seven, and the three that increased payroll did so by less than 4 percent.

The Pittsburgh Pirates’ payroll rose 82 percent when PNC Park opened. They’ve had one season over that figure, $52.7 million, in the 10 since – and none in the last eight.

Last season, the San Diego Padres’ eighth since christening Petco Park, their opening day payroll was $45.9 million – $2 million less than in 2004.

The point: Unless the Marlins build a perpetually competitive team (a la the Philadelphia Phillies) or start packing the stadium (like the Milwaukee Brewers) – plus have ownership willing to take the sort of risks Loria and Samson have never taken – the Marlins are going to be just like any other team with a new stadium: at the mercy of a fickle fan base that responds only to winning.

And whether Miami even cares about that is suspect. The Marlins, remember, averaged 16,089 fans per game in 2003, when they won the World Series. Attendance has held steady at an official 18,000 or so the last three years, a number so inflated Goodyear ought to sponsor its announcement every night. The idea that the Marlins will suddenly pack the stadium with 30,000 fans a night beyond the honeymoon period of 2012 is laughable. Chances are they won’t even reach 30,000 a night this season, and the coolest ballpark ever will turn into little more than Nationals Park 2.0: a boondoggle of the highest order.

Were the Marlins’ television rights up for auction, perhaps this impending spending spree would make more sense. Fox Sports Florida holds them through 2020.

So where is this money coming from? Are the Marlins, the franchise that pocketed so much shared revenue that complaints from the players’ union and larger-market owners prompted Major League Baseball to tell the franchise to spend some damn money, going to suddenly change because they’ve come into more revenue? Cheapskates that make more money are still cheapskates. They’re just richer cheapskates.

The Marlins have already conned politicians. Now they’re trying to do the same to build a fan base. Look at this shiny Pujols. Behold this beautiful Reyes. Covet this glimmering Cespedes. We’re trying. We really are.

What they don’t say: Come back in three years and see what we look like.

Because by then, unless people from Broward and Palm Beach counties really want to travel to Little Havana through brutal traffic – and all indications are they don’t – the Marlins are going to be exactly where they were: sunk by an indifferent fan base and ownership that carries itself like it knows what it’s doing.

“Who takes them seriously?” said one source familiar with the Marlins’ operations. “They’re not going to draw. That’s going to be a disaster. Loria is like an awful version of [George] Steinbrenner. They’re afraid to question the guy because of ramifications.

“Look at what Logan Morrison(notes) did. That creates a bad environment when they’re all afraid of the big cheese.

Morrison, a talented outfielder, was too candid for Loria’s taste on Twitter and found himself at Triple-A. He wasn’t the first person to end up in Loria’s doghouse, and he won’t be the last. Anyone who can thieve tax dollars to build a playground of profit and pat himself on the back for it suffers from the sort of megalomania not even a lobotomy could cure.

The Marlins can appear aggressive with the cost of a plane ticket and a hotel room for players they court. They can throw a term sheet in front of an agent. Hell, they might even sign Reyes, though good luck on doing so without sending longtime shortstop Hanley Ramirez(notes), he of Loria’s perpetual enabling, into a hissy fit.

Pujols says he is going to listen to God when it comes to where he plays next. And if indeed it is a kind and benevolent God, it will take one look at the Marlins’ new uniforms and spare Pujols the indignity.

Dysfunction breeds itself in south Florida, no matter the franchise’s name, its look, its stadium. Loria, wanting to let go of the past Friday night, chucked a Florida Marlins hat into the crowd, as if to say: In with the new.

Give it a little time. Soon enough, it will look just like the old.


this is basically what ive been saying

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 Post subject: Re: Baseball 2012
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 5:44 am 
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kyussfreak wrote:
you mean alot of chatter has reyes visiting the marlins right now. i dont think reyes signs with the marlins.


The local ESPN radio station is reporting that the Marlins are very close to signing Reyes. And if they do, they pretty much guarantee their payroll will be in at least the $80MM range the next three seasons, unless they trade Hanley ($15MM) or Josh Johnson ($14MM) away. I think the Marlins HAVE to make a concerted effort to build a legitimate contender or they'll be crucified by the locals. That stadium was financed by $400MM of public money. That funding was approved BEFORE the shady accounting of Loria was exposed, so the local politicians are going to be keeping a close eye on the workings of that team. The local economy (which would be the City's biggest concern) will not benefit if that is a middling and/or in-the-shitter type of team with nobody coming and seeing the games.

The stadium is apparently very nice, but in a pretty undesirable part of town. Some guy on Yahoo said that nobody was going to go see games in "Little Havana". I don't know whether that's a jab at the ethnic/socio-economic class of the area or whether it's a clusterfuck to get to or see a game at. That's why I like seeing all the different ballparks; you can see where there local planners went wrong or right in placing and putting these parks together. MLB plays 81 home games that average between 20-30K a night, upwards of 40-45K in the largest markets. It's a huge business for these cities.

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 Post subject: Re: Baseball 2012
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:07 am 
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The new uni's are a step backwards though.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Baseball 2012
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:34 am 
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Looks like an Indian casino logo. Except they have way less attendance than the average Wednesday at Mohegan Sun.

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 Post subject: Re: Baseball 2012
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 1:39 pm 

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the other day espn announced that the phillies had signed ryan madsen to a 4 year $44 contract. we saw how reliable that turned out.

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 Post subject: Re: Baseball 2012
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:24 pm 
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Quote:
Jose Reyes has agreed to terms with the Miami Marlins, according to Dino Costa of SiriusXM.
Terms haven't been disclosed, though we know Miami made a pair of large offers to Reyes and Albert Pujols over the last week. Jorge Sedano of 790 AM The Ticket in Miami reported earlier that Reyes signing with the Marlins is "almost a done deal." Both reports haven't been backed by the club's beat writers -- yet. Reyes was seeking a Carl Crawford-type deal (seven years, $142 million). If the reports are indeed true, Hanley Ramirez would likely shift to third base next season. Reyes is coming of an impressive .337/.384/.493 campaign with the Mets.


Fuck.

And if the Marlins keep signing Type A free agents, the non-sandwich pick that comes with losing Reyes will most likely drop with each round.

Bad situation made worse.

I will hold out hope that the fact that the beat writers, let alone the organization or Reyes himself, have yet to confirm this report means this is a case of small time reporters making premature reports in an effort to get first dibs and nothing has actually yet been signed.


Last edited by Adam on Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Baseball 2012
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:29 pm 

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RalphSnart wrote:
Looks like an Indian casino logo.


That's exactly it. Ha ha ha!

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 Post subject: Re: Baseball 2012
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:33 pm 
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Quote:
Jose Reyes - SS - Mets

Jose Reyes and the Marlins have not agreed to contact terms, according to Joe Capozzi of The Palm Beach Post.
Capozzi cited a Marlins team source. Dino Costa of SiriusXM reported that Reyes had agreed to terms with the Marlins and Jorge Sedano of 790 AM The Ticket in Miami reported that a deal was almost completed. Capozzi is a far more reliable source. We'd expect Reyes to visit more teams before agreeing to a contract. The dynamic 28-year-old posted a .337/.384/.493 triple slash line in 2011.


That's better.


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 Post subject: Re: Baseball 2012
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:56 am 

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Pleased w/ the Cards decision to go w/ Matheny...I personally favored Oquendo, but Matheny, while lacking managerial experience, was all but a player/manager during his final years as a player...I don't see him deviating too far from the LaRussa template...rumor is that LaRussa made it clear to the front office that Matheny was his favored pick...moreover, Matheny's got local appeal as he's lived in the STL area for years w/ his young fam and he's one of Pujols' best friends...I'd say the hire was mostly about accommodating Pujols, but the front office knows firsthand they're getting a baseball lifer as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Baseball 2012
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 12:49 pm 
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Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports reports that the Dodgers and Matt Kemp are engaging in serious discussions on an eight-year extension worth $160 million.
Kemp is currently scheduled to become a free agent after the 2012 season, and the Dodgers want to lock him up long-term before he even gets a whiff of what might be available to him on the open market. $20 million per year over the course of eight years should do the trick. Kemp batted .324 with a .986 OPS, 39 homers, 40 steals and 126 RBI in 161 games this past season.


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 Post subject: Re: Baseball 2012
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:07 pm 

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^ Money well spent re: Kemp...IMO and barring a major injury, he will generate the most bang for the buck long-term out of any current NL player, b/c he is still young and has the most assets - including speed and being relatively injury-free - of any NL player...no disrespect to Braun, who is a great player in his own right.


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 Post subject: Re: Baseball 2012
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:21 pm 
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Kemp's one of my favorite players and so I think he's worthy of that contract.

BUT

He is one player who I could see questioning his motivation once he gets paid. He was great last year but not so great the year prior and that lack of performance seemed the result of him just not being focused on baseball. Maybe my viewpoints tainted by media reports but my read on him is he's got lots of talent, lots of upside, but I just don't know how much he wants to be the best in the game or if he's just happy getting paid and living off his talent, which only gets him so far.

That said, I'd give him that contract in a second. That paragraph above was probably just me playing devil's advocate and I don't really buy that being a legit concern/obstacle.

As for bang for the buck, I think in terms of offensive NL player Kemp will have some competition from Tulo, Upton, Cargo, Braun. Then there's the younger guys who are still on entry level contract s like Mike Stanton, Buster Poser, Sterling Castro, Andrew Mccutchen, etc. Maybe not yet on the level of the Kemp's but their contract situations definitely up their value a lot.


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 Post subject: Re: Baseball 2012
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:26 pm 

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In the here and now, Upton's nipping at Braun's heels for #2, IMO...guys like Castro and McCutcheon could very well be in Kemp's shoes in 3-5 years...Castro is one of the best young hitters in the game, but his defense is horrific and his power stroke is in development a la Cano a few years ago...McCutcheon's on the brink...no question about it...more of a question of when it all clicks, not if.


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 Post subject: Re: Baseball 2012
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:47 pm 

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I'm not as big on Castro as some of you are. Don't get me wrong he is a good player with tremenmdous upside, but I don't think he'll ever reach the level of super-stud like Braun, Kemp, CarGo, McCutcheon and Votto. The one thing that Castro doesn't have compared to the others is he potential to hit for 30 hrs and 100 rbi. Sure, some of that has to do with him hitting leadoff, but, imo, he'll be just below the super-stud line when its all said and done.


One guy who next season will take the leap into stud stratosphere like Kemp and Upton did is Desmond Jennings. He's simialr to McCutcheon, but with a little more power.

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 Post subject: Re: Baseball 2012
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:53 pm 

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Castro's 21 with plenty of time to develop a power stroke...hence, the Cano comparisons...time will tell...that said, his defense is so bad, I wonder if it's fixable...Jennings should make the jump, but I'm a little worried about his ability to hit for average...even in the minors, he was a mid-.270s guy.


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 Post subject: Re: Baseball 2012
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:00 pm 

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im a little worried about matt kemps ability to hit for average. as axe or frog already pointed out. matt kemp tends to lose focus easily. i hope he goes the way of griffey and not sizemore

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 Post subject: Re: Baseball 2012
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:51 pm 

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the dodgers just signed mark ellis to a 2 tear deal. nice solid defensive player than will do nothing but help dee gordon out. solid move

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